This transcript is auto generated
00;00;00;00 - 00;00;25;17
Meg Pekarske
Hello and welcome to Hospice Insights: The Law and Beyond where we connect you to what matters in the ever-changing world of hospice and palliative care. AI in Action: Exploring How AI is Helping Hospices Do Things in New Ways. Dina, I'm so excited to have you on the podcast.
00;00;25;19 - 00;00;27;01
Dina Yankelewitz
Great to be here.
00;00;27;03 - 00;00;59;26
Meg Pekarske
Yeah, it's I've been wanting to do this podcast for a while because a couple episodes ago I had one of my colleagues to talk about AI. And, you know, lawyers are all about risk. And, you know, the things to think about before you adopt AI and whatever. But this is this is a really fun conversation because it's really talking about all of the exciting opportunities that there are for for AI, and the tools that are out there.
00;00;59;26 - 00;01;22;00
Meg Pekarske
So I've been looking forward to do you know, your passion for this area is contagious. And so every time I talk to you, I'm like, oh my God, new ways of doing things. And so, so anyway, I've been really looking forward to that. So thanks for for taking the time. So thanks very much to you. Yeah.
00;01;22;00 - 00;01;50;27
Meg Pekarske
And so you're the CEO of Vitalis, which is a software technology company. But you didn't always do this, right. So tell me a little bit about your background and how you came to this work and, and sort of what drove you to be passionate about is you're really focused on tools for for hospices and maybe home health, too, but really fixing fixing trouble spots for hospices.
00;01;50;29 - 00;02;14;08
Dina Yankelewitz
Yeah, that's a great question. And my background is a bit diverse. I actually come back to backgrounds. I got a doctorate in mathematics education way back when, barely remember those days and spent some time as a university professor. And I just remember my dissertation advisor, Carolyn Mar, saying, get your dissertation in on Iran and then put the world on fire.
00;02;14;08 - 00;02;39;13
Dina Yankelewitz
And I just feel like that's been driving me ever since. So I've been looking for places where I can make a change and see where we can really bring value to people and to industry. So that's really like what's been driving me throughout my career and most recently over the past several years, really got deep into data analytics and AI way before most of the world knew about ChatGPT.
00;02;39;16 - 00;03;15;23
Dina Yankelewitz
We were talking about how to get AI to solve industry problems, and we put a really big focus on healthcare because, you know, that's really where it really counts and matters. Yeah. And we have a very strong mission behind everything that we build. And you know, that focus on hospice where, you know, those last minutes count the most and where we can help the people who are putting their hearts into the work that they do and spend the time that they need with their patients, do their work more effectively and more efficiently, is a super strong mission that drives us.
00;03;15;26 - 00;03;44;10
Meg Pekarske
Yeah, well, and like how I view my job is I help good people do good things in the world. Like I'm adjacent to the good, right? Like I'm helping people do the good. And likewise, you're doing the same thing because it does feel really impactful. And when we talk about meaning making as humans of, you know, why are we here and what are, you know, what are we here to do?
00;03;44;12 - 00;04;05;27
Meg Pekarske
I just think, you know, healthcare is really meaningful. You're touching people's lives at and especially at end of life care and really vulnerable times of people's lives. And you can make a huge difference. So helping people who are doing that work is does like me up, to even though I'm not doing that at bedside stuff. Always.
00;04;05;29 - 00;04;26;17
Dina Yankelewitz
Yeah. But our line is we're at we're at the clinician side so that they can be at the patient side. And I think that, you know, our users are looking at it like that. They're we're really do I help them get the information they need. Well I think that that's yeah I think that that's one of the ways to look at AI as you know.
00;04;26;20 - 00;04;44;14
Dina Yankelewitz
Yeah there definitely concerns. And we need to be really careful with how we use it. But if we look at it as a tool that services us and informs us rather than one that's in the driver's seat, it really takes the edge, you know, and the fear away and empowers the user.
00;04;44;16 - 00;05;27;17
Meg Pekarske
Yeah, yeah. No, I think that's a great way to think about it. And one thing that I think is so cool about your background that I think really is a connector with the work you do now, is your doctor was in mathematics education, and so you thought about or you think about how people think. Right. So and I think that's so critical when we're developing technology solutions for people, because understanding the human brain and how we learn things is really important to develop tools that are easy to use.
00;05;27;17 - 00;05;54;02
Meg Pekarske
Right. Because we're, you know, I have, in our title, you know, doing things in new ways. Right? Pages. The number one thing humans hate. Right. And so even the best tool is always going to have pushback. But if it's easy to use and really intuitive, while there's still can be resistance, it's going to be like, oh, okay.
00;05;54;02 - 00;06;16;08
Meg Pekarske
It took me two seconds to figure this out, right? And you know, you still might have resistance, but I think if you if your background and and the how do humans think and learn and, you know, creating tools that are really easy to use, critical to, you know, adoption. Right.
00;06;16;11 - 00;06;38;14
Dina Yankelewitz
What's so interesting? I actually never thought of it that way. Like, I always know bringing the numbers data side, but I think you're spot on because one of the big focuses on the team is what does the user need? Right? Let's draw the target and then fashion that product around it so that it's really servicing the user. And, you know, move quickly.
00;06;38;14 - 00;06;48;05
Dina Yankelewitz
If the customer needs something you don't need bogged down by bit by bureaucracy. We want to be able to deliver the products that are really going to make a difference in hands.
00;06;48;07 - 00;07;18;13
Meg Pekarske
Yeah, because I think there's so many technology tools out there. And then it's like people's attention span because of technology, I feel like is like zero. So if people don't get it right away, then it's like, okay, I can't use this, right? So ease is really important. And you know, I am like the opposite of a mathematician. So but I know when people talk about math problems like math solutions, there's beauty in that.
00;07;18;13 - 00;07;35;14
Meg Pekarske
Like there's beauty in like what you're doing because it's like in the simplicity of it. Right? I mean, we want to create. Yeah, yeah. Complex solutions to complex problems sometimes. But the solution is simple, right? I mean, it's on the end.
00;07;35;14 - 00;07;52;12
Dina Yankelewitz
Yeah. So and sometimes in a way it makes it a little harder because like you show the solution and then they're like, hey that's easy right. Yeah. But there is that value that's hiding behind it that's so complex and making it easy for the user to digest.
00;07;52;14 - 00;08;03;07
Meg Pekarske
Yeah. Well, I think that's a differentiator. Like how I try to practice law too, is like, if you really know what you're doing, you should be able.
00;08;03;09 - 00;08;05;17
Dina Yankelewitz
And then you don't need to use your fancy language. Yeah. Right.
00;08;05;17 - 00;08;56;05
Meg Pekarske
Exactly. And regular talk. Yes. And it you can distill it down in a very short nugget. You know, you don't need 100 pages to explain something, but that, that bringing that to the next level, that last 10% or something is like, you know, all the way. Because I think with AI, especially in talking with clients and, and folks in the industry, I think that, you know, and take telehealth, for example, there was reluctance to use telehealth like especially in hospice, which is, you know, I need to be at the bedside and but now and I have a podcast coming out, with Doctor Bethany Snyder, where we're talking about palliative care and also the use
00;08;56;05 - 00;09;30;12
Meg Pekarske
of telehealth and that and like that, there was reluctance to use telehealth, like I, you know, video is not the same as, you know, touching, feeling, the sensory experience of being in that room with someone. But I think people, you know, have overcome that her because they see a lot of benefits of it. So I think in terms of lessons learned, like telehealth is sort of one of those things too, where you look at in the survey five years ago is could you achieve the same results with telehealth people being absolutely not right?
00;09;30;15 - 00;09;31;18
Meg Pekarske
You know, and.
00;09;31;18 - 00;09;53;26
Dina Yankelewitz
Yeah, I think I totally hear that. I think it takes time for people to get used to the idea that technology can help them in so many ways and in very specific ways, ways that they may not have thought of before. And like getting over that hump of like adapting our technology can make a difference in your workflow is is one that takes time.
00;09;53;26 - 00;10;08;00
Dina Yankelewitz
And I think that that's also, you know, a piece of what we're trying to do is ease it into people workflows so that it's really helping them and serving them. And they look at it as friends rather than them. Yeah. And I think that's so important.
00;10;08;02 - 00;10;39;12
Meg Pekarske
Yeah. So I'm sure when you ask people there are problems for so long laundry list of like you know, how could I make your life better? Right. And of course there's existential things that we can't make better. But but in you strategically chose a couple things to focus on and I think. Right. And I want to unpack like why you chose those and all of those things.
00;10;39;12 - 00;11;10;19
Meg Pekarske
But, I think as an industry right now, you know, people are really struggling to provide the highest level of quality care. And not bogged people down with paperwork and like, you know, put as much money as we can in patient care. But like with the regulatory environment, there's, you know, the cost with enforcement and all these things is just there's a lot of need seeking after each dollar.
00;11;10;19 - 00;11;42;27
Meg Pekarske
We have. So I think, you know, what can increase efficiency in some way or directly impact the business by, you know, you know, in a money way. I mean, there's, there's adding money and there's like getting more money because you can do this thing quicker, better. So, so but tell me a little bit about like, what you, what you chose to focus on and why.
00;11;42;27 - 00;11;46;14
Meg Pekarske
And some of the tools you have because they're pretty exciting.
00;11;46;16 - 00;12;12;10
Dina Yankelewitz
Yeah. So I think the overarching theme of everything we're developing is we're trying to help hospices efficiently deliver the right here, to the right patients, at the right time. So really getting the care, the people that need it in an effective and efficient way, there's a lot of different ways that that can be accomplished or increased within a hospice operation.
00;12;12;12 - 00;12;42;01
Dina Yankelewitz
So for example, you want to know when patients are at their critical moments and you want to be able to service them and care for them at that time. So we have a tool that helps you do just that with super high accuracy 94% accuracy, identifying transitioning patients. And that way we're able to help these hospices know which patients are close to transition and then schedule the right care for those patients.
00;12;42;03 - 00;13;06;18
Dina Yankelewitz
But then there are other aspects like, hey, but I don't have enough resources to actually see all the patients that need the care. Well, that's where we need to think about how can we increase the productivity of our workers and decrease the wasted time spent driving? Right. You know, doing the wrong things in the wrong order can make such a big difference in how much staffing you actually have.
00;13;06;18 - 00;13;35;07
Dina Yankelewitz
So that's where we bring in vitality. Think where you can actually reduce the actual time spent on driving and mileage by 55 to 65%. So that can increase those resources that you have to make the visits to the patients that need that care increase astronomically. And then, you know, nurses are and and, and other clinicians are always struggling with documentation.
00;13;35;07 - 00;13;54;24
Dina Yankelewitz
You know, documentation is the bane of health care. It's it's such a difficult piece when all you want to do is just give the care to the patient. Right? Like we don't want to be typing that up here and there. And then you need to go back and make sure that we what is actually perfect so that, you know, it actually shows the decline that the patients are actually experiencing.
00;13;54;25 - 00;14;20;27
Dina Yankelewitz
Right. And sometimes, you know, you're seeing that patients today and you might not have captured that patient's decline perfectly because of that pressure of making sure that you're giving the care that's needed. And so that's where we bring in an online tool. So we want you to have that ability to think proactively about whether your documentation is in line with reality and compliant.
00;14;21;00 - 00;14;32;11
Dina Yankelewitz
So it's sort of coming from all different directions and thinking about that patient care in the center. How can we get these hospices to do what they do best in patient care and effective and efficient manner?
00;14;32;13 - 00;15;01;24
Meg Pekarske
Yeah, I think that when you're talking about, you know, the documentation piece especially, I feel like I hate it when I go to the doctor now and no one even looks at you. They're just typing on the computer the whole time. And I know that as an industry where, you know, trying to document at the bedside, but I also think we don't want to interface here with the connection we need to have with patients.
00;15;01;24 - 00;15;46;07
Meg Pekarske
And, I think really so true. Folks like you can jot down, because I had a really positive experience where I felt like I was being listened to and they might jot something down to remember, you know, further documentation. But I still felt like 110% of the attention was on what I was saying. And I think, you know, when you then document, it's like making sure that our documentation focuses on, you know, a lot of the clinical stuff because there's a lot of story and narrative and hospice, like we're psychosocial.
00;15;46;11 - 00;16;11;17
Dina Yankelewitz
So important. And I don't want to downplay it like the documentation is, is so crucial and accurate documentation and comprehensive documentation is absolutely necessary for for functioning and a hospice. If you don't have that documentation, you won't know when things are happening to a patient, right? You won't be aware, for example, that there's smoking happening next to an oxygen tank.
00;16;11;17 - 00;16;35;21
Dina Yankelewitz
I mean, there's nature. There are so many things that are so critical to document. And I think that what our goal is to help that documentation become more complete because that completeness is so difficult. And yeah, it takes away so much from that. He shouldn't clinician experience if it's done the wrong way. It's so important to have that fresh record of what is actually happening.
00;16;35;23 - 00;16;50;05
Meg Pekarske
Well, and I think having prompts for, you know, questions because sometimes you forget everything you ask. But if someone said, you know, did you ask them about I mean, this is.
00;16;50;05 - 00;16;51;23
Dina Yankelewitz
A sample, but what.
00;16;51;23 - 00;17;13;08
Meg Pekarske
Was their pain level today? Or like, how much did they eat and how big was that or whatever? Like you're going to remember like, oh yeah, they were telling me that their knees got these oranges for that, but they could only eat half of it. And but, you know, because there's so much of what we gather and I think really good clinicians do this.
00;17;13;10 - 00;17;39;05
Meg Pekarske
People don't hand you stuff on a silver platter, like, it's through the conversation that you get to learn how things are really going on. And I think hospice people are really brilliant at doing that. But sometimes I think that nuance doesn't always make it into the medical record. They remember the story about the oranges at the knees, but not like, oh, and then they told me how much of the orange they could eat and how long it took them to eat.
00;17;39;05 - 00;18;12;06
Meg Pekarske
That that's important to document, right? Like in the record or, you know, whatever the example may be. And so I think, you know, making sure that we're getting credit for all the things that we're doing, is, is super important. And so, I guess so you have something that helps with scheduling. You have something that helps with, you know, making sure people's documentation, you know, is complete.
00;18;12;09 - 00;18;40;28
Meg Pekarske
And then, you know, making sure that we're there when patients need us, when there are significant changes and people are transitioning. And it seems like two with these mean super important problems to help provide a solution for, but they also make a meaningful difference, I think, not only to the quality of life of our staff when we're thinking about staff retention.
00;18;40;28 - 00;19;02;02
Meg Pekarske
Right? Like if you're like, oh, my hair is on fire, I don't know where I'm supposed to be. And I have to manage and deal with these very, you know, can be very stressful situations. And then, you know, I have to figure out how to get to this place. I've never been, you know, it just is, it's a lot.
00;19;02;02 - 00;19;26;07
Meg Pekarske
And I, I can't remember when I learned this, but I was like, oh, genius. That like U.P.S. or Fedex, they don't take left turns because that takes forever to have a route that requires, like, all these left turns. And so I think, again, something that technology can really help us with is what's the most efficient way to get somewhere?
00;19;26;07 - 00;19;50;07
Meg Pekarske
Because no one loves to drive. You know, no one windshield time is not what people want more of. So that seems super incredible to be able to help with scheduling and then efficiency and like the order in which you do a visit to make sure that you're not zigzagging across the the your service area.
00;19;50;09 - 00;20;19;18
Dina Yankelewitz
Yeah. And I think what's really important with all of this keeping like the hospice practices and you know, front and center and whenever we're doing like, you know, scheduling is great, but if you don't have the continuity of care, it won't work. So it's sort of starting from the hospice mindset, thinking about how do we do things now and what's the right way to do it, and how can we then make that workflow easier in a way that will fit in the hospice workflow?
00;20;19;18 - 00;20;37;09
Dina Yankelewitz
I think at the key focus of what we're doing with a lot of this technology, and it's it's just so important because as we're trying to help people move from doing these rote tasks that were important tasks for the hospice, we want them to feel comfortable, too.
00;20;37;12 - 00;21;12;11
Meg Pekarske
Yeah. No, absolutely. And I think that, you know, these are standalone tools because they interact with your EMR, right? So I have no idea technologically how you make that stuff work. But like, this is my head. You can get dizzy thinking about this, but they're. Yeah. You know, it's not like you need to have, you know, something totally different than maybe what you have right now in order to, to use some of these tools.
00;21;12;14 - 00;21;40;13
Dina Yankelewitz
Right. The focus of everything that we're building is to retain the workflow as much as possible, whenever possible. So, for example, you know, making sure that that schedule is showing up in the EMR, the way the clinicians and the admins are, you seeing it. And so yeah, that's something that we really spent a lot of time doing to make sure that the workflows are remaining the same, but that they're just becoming much shorter.
00;21;40;15 - 00;22;07;08
Meg Pekarske
Yeah. So to that point, I know that from the beginning, it's like, well, how are we going to measure success? Because it's not just like, oh, well, we sold more software licenses or whatever. It's like outcome focused, right? I mean, there are people need to say, does this really work? And how am I going to save money or whatever?
00;22;07;08 - 00;22;25;24
Meg Pekarske
And so I know you've been real mindful in how are you going to measure is this is this a value. And so tell me a little bit about that. How what your approach has been because it's both monetary but it's also other thing.
00;22;25;27 - 00;22;48;23
Dina Yankelewitz
Yeah that's that's a really good question. And I think that front and center is the transparency that we want to provide with all of the tools that we're giving. We want you to see as you're using a tool where it's helping you and where it can help you more. So one of the things that we do is we provide a ton of data upfront within the software so that you can see those measures in real time.
00;22;48;25 - 00;23;15;08
Dina Yankelewitz
But on top of that, we, as we work with our clients, establish KPIs that we measure before they enter the software experience. And then we do a check in after a successful implementation. And we take a look at a variety of factors. So really depending on the tool we're looking at both the actual numbers right. Increased efficiency decreased costs or increased revenue.
00;23;15;10 - 00;23;33;25
Dina Yankelewitz
But then on the other side we're also looking at more effective operations. So whether it's increased productivity or decreased staff needed for these rote tasks or increased care for the actual patient.
00;23;33;27 - 00;24;20;15
Meg Pekarske
Yeah. Well, and something that comes to mind with these, and I don't know if you've come up with a measure yet because all of the stuff is so new. But patient satisfaction. And I know there's a lot of heartburn out there right now with the new help tool and, and how we're measuring patient satisfaction. But, I think that, that a lot of the things we're doing especially they're very outward facing, like they make a difference to the patient, like, oh, I show up to my appointments on time because I knew how long was going to take me to get there because all this stuff was pre planned out and I didn't have to, you
00;24;20;15 - 00;24;55;27
Meg Pekarske
know, and that's going to, you know, in terms of patients and families is really going to aid in their sense of accountability. I mean those visits when you're on the other end of them are really important and you're waiting and, you know, you usually have updates about what's going on. And so it seems like there's a lot of value with some of the stuff in terms of the patient experience to, of, but like right time, right care, you know, we're there when you we need you.
00;24;55;27 - 00;24;58;07
Meg Pekarske
We you need us. You know.
00;24;58;07 - 00;25;26;01
Dina Yankelewitz
And so yeah 1,000% and I think that throughout the tools that we developed that was a very big focus. You know, we developed we sort of looked at the tools that we're building as we're not just giving the hospice industry tools. We're joining the hospice industry learning what they really need. And I think that all the hospices that we've spoken to are so focused on that patient experience.
00;25;26;04 - 00;25;49;16
Dina Yankelewitz
You know, just one thought that comes to mind is with our advantage tool that's predicting and the way the patients and their families want to know when that's happening. And the most important measure or associate or a patient satisfaction is their experience during those last sentences ten days. And so you're actually going in there and giving that care that's needed at that time.
00;25;49;19 - 00;26;16;10
Dina Yankelewitz
The caregiver will remember that after that transition. And that's going to be the deciding factor of a that this hospice do what it needed to do when we needed them. And then on the scheduling side, it may be a bit more subtle, but now something we're building out within the scheduling tool, I think tool is providing patient and caregiver notifications when the caregiver is arriving.
00;26;16;13 - 00;26;27;22
Dina Yankelewitz
Right. So, you know, confirming the visit, letting them know an SCA so that they're prepared. Somebody is coming to the house will be ready for them. And that makes that a world of a better.
00;26;27;24 - 00;27;06;29
Meg Pekarske
No, I think that's that's, super helpful. And, and one thing that I've talked about on this podcast before, through my hospice volunteering, I've done I was surprised on how technology literate folks are like across ages, like, you know, there's people in their 90s and they're FaceTiming and they're using their iPad and all of that stuff. So, meeting people where we're at, I mean, the 100 year old patient who's, you know, showing me pictures on her iPad.
00;27;06;29 - 00;27;43;23
Meg Pekarske
I mean, I think this is only going to become more commonplace and especially right, the unit of care in hospice is both patients and their families. And so even if not, you know, the patient at their geriatric, but, you know, their loved ones are probably on technology. Right. And so, I think like and I know that hospice is adopting some of this, but I think we really need to think about how technology in so many ways, can help us do things that we're doing better and meeting people.
00;27;43;23 - 00;28;11;14
Meg Pekarske
This isn't just like efficiency. This is actually a differentiator because people want to communicate in that way. Like, I don't want to have to get a phone call all the time. I want someone to send me a text or, you know, an email. So, like, you know, we all talk about our midlife now and you have older parents and if you have kids, you got kids like you can't always get off and answer the phone.
00;28;11;14 - 00;28;31;25
Meg Pekarske
Right. And so I think just different ways to communicate with with people, to make that experience feel better. And again, it's not replacing, you know, the presence because I think presence is really important. But it's like how we deliver that.
00;28;31;25 - 00;28;51;22
Dina Yankelewitz
Increase and increasing the touch points. You know, this being the remote care, you know, the remote model that it is where you know, you're sitting at home, but you're signed up for hospice having those additional touch points can make such a difference in the patient and their caregiver feeling like, hey, it is. Hospice is here for me when I need it.
00;28;51;25 - 00;29;23;21
Meg Pekarske
Because I know from personal experience, like when you're in those moments, I'm passes differently. Like, and this is sort of a philosophical point, but like ride time, live time does not feel the same. Like one minute doesn't feel like one minute, depending on where your experience is. So like, you know, when you're, you know, at the end of life, time can be passing very slowly.
00;29;23;21 - 00;29;50;02
Meg Pekarske
And so people again, circling back to patient satisfaction, like you weren't responding and maybe you responded in 15 minutes, but when 15 minutes feels like two hours because you're stressed out, because someone's having, you know, pain or they're vomiting or I mean, it's feels like a crisis and like, how do we, you know, meet people in that way?
00;29;50;06 - 00;30;36;21
Meg Pekarske
Because, you know, I just I think there's so much potential for technology to help us do what we do better. And I think consumers are want that and almost are we almost the whole back to doing things differently, you know, because again, humans don't always like change, but I just I think it's a really exciting time to actually allow people to do more of the work as to why they got into this work to begin with, because it just who wants to spend time, you know, driving around in the car and feeling like you're behind schedule all the time?
00;30;36;21 - 00;31;11;24
Meg Pekarske
I mean, it just there's just a lot of things and and obviously turnover and staff retention is critical. And so I just the that there's so many opportunities. And I know you always have a pipeline of ideas right. It's like but one thing I really enjoyed is and I think because you're you're small and nimble is like you can take an idea and bring it to fruition fairly quickly, but also like you have resources and people who are really skilled at this.
00;31;11;24 - 00;31;45;08
Meg Pekarske
And so it's not like a big behemoth, like you got to turn the ship around like you people can have ideas. And I know you've really welcome people's ideas about what are their pain points and how can I solve that? To really come up with new things. And so I guess, you know, there's both balancing the dream with like, okay, but I have these things in the works, but, you know, talking about dream state at the moment, like, what's in the horizon that you're excited about.
00;31;45;08 - 00;31;55;15
Meg Pekarske
And and both in like these hospice tools. But what's going on in AI or in more generally to like what's the horizon like?
00;31;55;18 - 00;32;30;05
Dina Yankelewitz
It's a really good question. And my dream is to really converge everything that we're building into a one stop shop where clinical software is an easy to use experience. So, you know, like right now EMR is as they stand are they are bureaucratic and they are hard to table. And I think that that and for good reason because it's a very responsible software.
00;32;30;05 - 00;32;53;14
Dina Yankelewitz
And it's a software that has to be careful and cautious in the steps that it takes. But I think that if we rethink how the EMR is going to service our clinicians and our clinical service, that will help us re-envision, you know, where that I can fit in, whether it's bringing the information to your fingertips when you need it, right.
00;32;53;14 - 00;33;22;22
Dina Yankelewitz
Taking that patient care and bringing it to your fingertips, or bringing the patient data into the system, and then combining that. So, you know, when I think about our products, we have all these crossovers, you know, patients around the whites. They need more visits scheduled out. Right. So there are these natural synergies between what we're developing. And you start taking a step back and looking at the big picture.
00;33;22;22 - 00;33;31;01
Dina Yankelewitz
It's like, hey, how do I take the information I that I have about my patients and used it.
00;33;31;03 - 00;34;01;27
Meg Pekarske
Yeah. Yeah. Well and I, I think as you're saying this well, as you probably know, we work with a lot of hospices on audits and, you know, defending eligibility on the back end. And you know, we'll oftentimes say you run a report on this like what are all the ways what are all these like. And I you know, and some people are more skilled than others of doing that.
00;34;01;27 - 00;34;31;24
Meg Pekarske
And you're like, why is that not just commonplace that every single you know IDG meeting we have graphs and trending of like what's going on with this patient because we, you know, an age old thing. Hospices would always say is paint the picture. And I'm not saying I'm very for narrative text, but I also think, how can we consolidate data for ourselves to see our own trend like, oh, you know, I forgot that happened two weeks ago.
00;34;31;25 - 00;34;46;03
Meg Pekarske
You know, like, how can we visually, I think, visualize the medical record in some way. So it's not just words and not just even words searchable, but you know, and I haven't used.
00;34;46;04 - 00;34;50;01
Dina Yankelewitz
The information that you need when you need it. Right.
00;34;50;03 - 00;34;51;09
Meg Pekarske
This patient.
00;34;51;12 - 00;34;52;07
Dina Yankelewitz
Yeah.
00;34;52;09 - 00;35;18;04
Meg Pekarske
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Is it's like when we're defining chip eligibility, it's like how many med changes did we have in this period of time. How many times do we have to give period medications and having graphs and charts that depict that? Because those things can be way more powerful than drafting a paragraph about they got this medication and then they got that medication, like a visual is powerful.
00;35;18;04 - 00;36;02;04
Meg Pekarske
And I just think it's back to what we said before. It's like the distillation of ideas into a visual format. And I think, you know, we as humans are very visual people. And so not that language isn't helpful, but like, how can we create charts and visuals to organize information that we already have, but like making it like I can understand it more and like the trajectory of painting the picture, right, like through a graph that you don't have to like spend ten hours creating that graph by going through each nursing node and finding all this stuff.
00;36;02;04 - 00;36;16;10
Meg Pekarske
So, I don't know, I just that struck me, as you were saying that about the EMR, and it's just such, linear and like, very word based document and not very visual.
00;36;16;13 - 00;36;36;08
Dina Yankelewitz
Yeah, yeah. And I think also just the action oriented approach, like what, what does this clinician need to do right now and why. And give that them that information when they need it so that they don't need to sift through it and they just have that, oh, I need to be smart. So I need to increase visit frequency.
00;36;36;10 - 00;36;51;01
Dina Yankelewitz
That information can be based on that huge bet of clinical data that's sitting in the file or in the chart, but then it's not something that the clinician needs. That's where yeah, they're right where they need it.
00;36;51;04 - 00;37;17;28
Meg Pekarske
Like oh yeah we tried morphine two months ago to dinner. That was unhelpful. And then we tried that. You know, whatever it is, you use that medication or whatever. But yeah, I just I only have ideas and no idea about how to actually implement any of these ideas, but it's super fun to think about of how can we buy new ways to do what we're doing, you know better.
00;37;17;28 - 00;37;18;27
Dina Yankelewitz
And keep the human.
00;37;18;28 - 00;37;20;17
Meg Pekarske
Work at the human level.
00;37;20;20 - 00;37;45;25
Dina Yankelewitz
So yeah, and I think I think in hospice, you know, people are doing very taxing and deeply human work. And in addition to the functionality, we want to bring that color, that encouragement, positivity to these workers days, we want them to feel energized by the software that we're giving them so that they feel good. And they're they're fun to use.
00;37;45;25 - 00;38;03;27
Dina Yankelewitz
And it's something that we really put a very big focus on, even though it seems so ancillary, because we know the ins, the day in and day out of these missions and providing that life within a software makes it, it makes such a difference in their morale.
00;38;03;29 - 00;38;28;27
Meg Pekarske
Right? Apple knows that. My little fitness app saying good job Meg. Good morning Meg. It was my it was what my Apple Watch says when I wake up. I mean, I think like, you know, we can laugh about it, but we're all need reassurance. And what you're doing matters, though. Meg, keep that up. I think can be super helpful.
00;38;29;00 - 00;38;57;04
Meg Pekarske
And I guess with all of this, you know, you're doing so much and, you know, we're talking about, like, fun stuff and not necessarily how do you accomplish all of this? But how do you stay inspired and passionate about what you're doing? Because, you know, it's a lot of what you're doing is a lot and is, well, what what's your grounding point?
00;38;57;04 - 00;39;02;04
Meg Pekarske
Why do you keep going back to that keeps you fired up?
00;39;02;06 - 00;39;48;11
Dina Yankelewitz
That's a really good question. And on a personal level, in addition to the difference that we're making within the industry and within health care, you know, we've put a really big focus in our business. You know, building our mission and bringing talented women into the tech workforce. And that's a very it's what wakes me up in the morning and a very meaningful part of everything that I do is, you know, bringing people into the tech workforce where they can make such a difference and achieve excellence and delivering that technology and and I think that that's my day to day is seeing that vision come alive and actually make a difference in our patients lives.
00;39;48;13 - 00;39;50;27
Dina Yankelewitz
It just connects all about 20.
00;39;50;29 - 00;40;06;24
Meg Pekarske
Yeah, I totally agree. And especially with the focus on health care where and especially in hospice, you know, I'm making this up. But you know, 90% of people in hospice are women, right. And so like.
00;40;06;24 - 00;40;07;21
Dina Yankelewitz
Are you serious?
00;40;07;21 - 00;40;41;00
Meg Pekarske
Wow. It's super, super high. And you know, I just think, you know, other parts of health care may not be from a leadership standpoint as female dominated, but I mean, I think too, that's an exciting thing because, you know, especially in tech and I know Stem in general, you know, where women and what is their, you know, percentage in that they feel that there's opportunities and, and stuff.
00;40;41;00 - 00;41;13;12
Meg Pekarske
It's sort of I don't know if engineering is the same way, but I know back in the day, like, oh, totally finding a female bathroom in the engineering building, I hopefully it is much better now. But, so yes. Go Dina, that's an an awesome thing. And yeah, I think that's tremendous. So I just love what you're doing and it's really exciting and it's exciting that you care about the end user like how it works.
00;41;13;14 - 00;41;35;13
Meg Pekarske
You know, it's not just outcome, but how it works and building tools that people want to use and that you're open to feedback and that adapting and being agile enough to integrate things that people want. Right. Because you you don't know what it's like to be a hospice nurse. You can only ask good questions and then you need to ask for feedback.
00;41;35;13 - 00;41;37;00
Meg Pekarske
Right. And so I love that one.
00;41;37;00 - 00;41;38;07
Dina Yankelewitz
Hundred percent.
00;41;38;10 - 00;41;39;15
Meg Pekarske
That you're doing. Yeah.
00;41;39;15 - 00;42;00;09
Dina Yankelewitz
And I, I look to our clients as our best teachers. We get such amazing feedback and we're getting tons of positive feedback. But then there's also there's nuances. And hey, we didn't think of that. We can build something for you to help you with exactly that challenge. And that's really where it really lights up the day, like, hey, we have a new idea.
00;42;00;10 - 00;42;06;23
Dina Yankelewitz
Let's see how we can build it into our into our roadmap. And, you know, I think we've really been very agile on that.
00;42;06;25 - 00;42;21;16
Meg Pekarske
Yeah. So cool. Well, I totally love, as I said, what you're doing. And it just it it would be fun to do this podcast in five years and then like whatever we talked about is very antiquated. And now it's like, oh.
00;42;21;21 - 00;42;26;27
Dina Yankelewitz
Yeah, I wonder what we're going to look like then? Wow. It's hard to imagine what the world will be like.
00;42;26;27 - 00;42;28;03
Meg Pekarske
Oh, I know.
00;42;28;05 - 00;42;29;29
Dina Yankelewitz
Everything is changing so quickly.
00;42;30;05 - 00;42;34;23
Meg Pekarske
Yeah. Every day I just try to focus on the the moment.
00;42;34;23 - 00;42;53;21
Dina Yankelewitz
Right. I feel like that as an AI company, you know, focusing on health care, what we're trying to do is think five years ahead, right. Look at where we are right now. But what's the world going to need in the next five years? And I think that that very much shapes the kind of innovation that we're developing.
00;42;53;24 - 00;42;59;19
Meg Pekarske
Yeah. And I do the same thing with my business. Like what are my clients going to need in five years? And how do I.
00;42;59;19 - 00;43;01;06
Dina Yankelewitz
Build that talent on my.
00;43;01;06 - 00;43;20;08
Meg Pekarske
Team? Or what talent do I need to have because I don't know how to do that. And so that's one reason why I've kept doing what I've been doing so long, because I feel like I've had five different jobs because I've been able to grow with my clients, and what they're doing now is totally different than what they were doing ten years ago in some ways.
00;43;20;08 - 00;43;22;24
Meg Pekarske
So, it's it, but.
00;43;22;24 - 00;43;26;28
Dina Yankelewitz
I'm sure some of it is still the same. Right? There's still some steam over there.
00;43;26;28 - 00;43;52;16
Meg Pekarske
Yes. You both still want contracts and, you know, the bread and butter stuff, but, yeah. So well I'm so inspired and this is so exciting, I can't wait to see what you come up with next. And, we're going to put a link to Vitalis’ website so if people want to learn more about you or your tools or.
00;43;52;16 - 00;43;55;13
Dina Yankelewitz
Happy to have conversations that would be great.
00;43;55;15 - 00;44;06;00
Meg Pekarske
Or just talk about AI, you know, so but anyway, thanks again so much for your time. This has been so fun.
00;44;06;02 - 00;44;12;29
Dina Yankelewitz
Sure feel free to reach out. I'm happy to hear from all of you.
00;44;13;01 - 00;44;33;08
Meg Pekarske
Well, that's it for today's episode of Hospice Insights: The Law and Beyond. Thank you for joining the conversation. To subscribe to our podcast, visit our website at huschblackwell.com or sign up wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, may the wind be at your back.